Renowned RIE (Resources for Infant Educarers) expert Hari Grebler, a long-time associate of the late Magda Gerber, recently shared her distinctive approach to infant and toddler sleep on Janet Lansbury’s popular podcast, "Unruffled." Grebler, who has been a guiding force in respectful parenting for over 35 years, offered insights that challenge conventional wisdom, emphasizing observation, respect, and a deep understanding of a child’s natural rhythms over rigid sleep training methodologies. Her philosophy, rooted in the principles of RIE and further informed by her training as a Pikler pedagogue and Waldorf early childhood teacher, suggests that fostering healthy sleep habits begins with recognizing the infant as a whole person from the earliest stages of life.
The conversation, which aired on July 6, 2025, delved into the common anxieties surrounding infant sleep and presented a refreshingly calm and intuitive alternative. Grebler’s core message centers on the power of attentive observation and acknowledging a baby’s cues, a stark contrast to the often overwhelming advice and product-driven solutions marketed to new parents. This episode builds upon a previous popular appearance by Grebler on "Unruffled," where she discussed the importance of independent time for infants.
The Foundation of Respectful Sleep: Observing and Responding
Grebler’s foundational advice for parents revolves around the simple yet profound act of acknowledging a baby’s tiredness. "The very, very beginning when you see your baby tired, even the littlest baby, to say, ‘Oh, you seem so tired. I just saw you rub your eyes. Come, let’s go get ready for bed’," she explained. This seemingly minor verbal acknowledgment, paired with a gentle action like picking up the baby, serves to bring awareness to the child about their own state and offers a supportive transition.
This approach, Grebler contends, is crucial in preventing the conflation of tiredness with negative behavior or a sign of parental failure, a common anxiety fostered by societal narratives. "Before you even have your baby, sleep sounds scary," she noted, referencing the prevalent "you’ll never sleep again" warnings and the onslaught of advice recommending specific gear like blackout curtains, sound machines, and even specialized cribs. This external pressure, Grebler suggests, often disconnects parents from their own intuition and their baby’s unique needs.
Navigating the Overwhelm: Trusting the Natural Process
Janet Lansbury, host of "Unruffled," echoed Grebler’s sentiment, describing the constant barrage of sleep advice as overwhelming. "It just removes us away from knowing our child before we even have a child," Lansbury stated, highlighting how these external pressures can undermine parental confidence in their ability to understand their baby’s natural sleep patterns.
Grebler emphasized that sleep is a fundamental biological need, akin to hunger, and that babies, like adults, possess an innate ability to sleep. Her philosophy encourages parents to view sleep not as a battle to be won through "training," but as a natural process to be supported. This perspective aligns with the RIE tenet of trusting the child and observing their innate capabilities.
The Subtle Language of Tiredness: Beyond Eye Rubs
While the eye rub is a universally recognized sign of fatigue, Grebler acknowledged that babies communicate tiredness through more subtle cues as well. These can include a dazed look, slowing movements, or even a slight increase in fussiness as they begin to become overwhelmed. Lansbury added that the window for responding to these cues can be surprisingly short, sometimes appearing only moments after a baby has been engaged and alert.
"It would be great if you can, but I always say eye rubbing because that’s sort of universal," Grebler conceded, while still advocating for parents to become attuned to the earlier, less obvious signs. She noted that a baby’s behavior often deteriorates when they are overtired, leading to what might be perceived as misbehavior.
Addressing Behavioral Challenges Through Sleep
A significant point of discussion was the link between sleep deprivation and challenging behaviors. Grebler shared an anecdote about a parent whose child was exhibiting aggressive behaviors, such as hitting. Grebler’s immediate response was to inquire about the child’s sleep, a common first question for her. "And of course it was about sleep," she reported. "And there’s nothing else you can do with behavior until you sort out the sleep."
This highlights a crucial aspect of Grebler’s approach: behavior is often a symptom of underlying needs, with sleep being a primary one. Disciplining or attempting to redirect a child who is fundamentally overtired is, in her view, both ineffective and unfair. The focus, therefore, shifts from behavioral management to addressing the root cause – inadequate rest.
Finding a Baby’s Rhythm: Beyond Clock-Based Routines
Grebler’s own experience with her son’s sleep challenges at around five months old provided a practical illustration of her philosophy. While initially concerned and considering external help, she ultimately relied on the principles she had been teaching. She recalled a friend who adhered to a strict nap schedule from a book, which made Grebler feel inadequate. However, she consciously chose not to impose an external rhythm but to discover her son’s natural one.
This involved meticulous observation over a week, charting when her son showed signs of tiredness. "And it was like 9:00 every day, there was a complete rhythm there," she reported. This led to a consistent bedtime routine initiated around 8:45 AM, allowing her son to fall asleep naturally when he was tired, rather than being forced into a schedule. This distinction between a "rhythm" and a "routine that goes by the clock" is central to her method.
The Importance of Connection and Environment
Grebler stressed that a strong connection between the child and caregiver is paramount for healthy sleep. This includes dedicated time for play and for the child to have their "inner life," free from constant adult interaction or demands. The physical environment also plays a role, with Grebler advocating for natural settings, even suggesting outdoor sleep when feasible.
Lansbury shared her own romanticized ideal of outdoor naps, inspired by Emmi Pikler’s renowned center in Budapest. While her personal attempts to replicate this were met with frustration due to external noise, she acknowledged the underlying principle of providing a calming and natural sleeping space.
Deconstructing "Sleep Training": A Relationship-Centered Perspective
The term "sleep training" itself was a point of discussion, with both Lansbury and Grebler expressing a disconnect with its connotations. Lansbury found the term vague and often associated with regimented, non-relationship-centered approaches. Grebler agreed, defining sleep training as "a set of rules" that often involves leaving a baby to cry alone.
"I feel like there’s a difference between a five-minute cry in your arms or even longer in your arms," Grebler stated, contrasting this with a baby left to cry in isolation. She emphasized that while a short cry might be a release, it should not occur without the presence and support of a caregiver. This aligns with the RIE philosophy of never leaving a baby alone with their distress.
Grebler’s approach to crying involves being present and offering comfort, holding the baby if needed. She also highlighted the importance of not forcing sleep, but rather "putting them to bed." This subtle but significant difference implies creating a conducive environment and allowing the child to fall asleep naturally, rather than actively making them sleep.
The Psychological Impact on Adults and Children
The conversation also touched upon the psychological toll that rigid sleep approaches can take on parents. Lansbury described her own struggles with sleep as an adult, noting that the most helpful advice she received was to "don’t worry about it, just let it go." This underscores the role of parental anxiety in exacerbating sleep difficulties for both themselves and their children.
Grebler concurred, stating that "anxiety is what interferes, for the adult anyway. And for the child, the anxiety of the adult." This creates a cycle where parental stress can transfer to the child, making it harder for them to relax and fall asleep. The pressure to achieve a specific sleep outcome can turn parents into "sleep police," a role that is detrimental to the parent-child relationship.
Embracing the "Fairytale Time" and Natural Sounds
For newborns, Grebler suggested reframing nighttime awakenings not as a burden, but as "fairytale time." This mental shift can help parents embrace the experience with less stress and more presence. The idea is to accept the natural ebb and flow of a newborn’s sleep, recognizing that they will eventually settle.
This also extends to the auditory environment. While acknowledging that external factors like construction can be disruptive, Grebler emphasized the benefit of natural sounds. The gentle hum of household activities, conversations, or even the sounds of nature can create a comforting backdrop for sleep, unlike the artificial imposition of white noise machines or the enforced silence that can make a baby feel more isolated.
The Lifelong Benefits of Respectful Sleep Practices
The core principle underlying Grebler’s approach is building a foundation of trust and respect that extends beyond sleep. By observing, responding, and creating a calm, predictable environment, parents foster a sense of security in their children. This secure attachment, Grebler believes, is crucial for all aspects of a child’s development, including their ability to regulate emotions and to sleep peacefully.
Grebler’s upcoming workshop, "Hari’s House," aims to provide parents with a practical demonstration of these principles in action. By showcasing the daily rhythms and environments within her own home, she intends to illustrate how Pikler and RIE respectful parenting can be translated into everyday life, offering a tangible model for parents seeking a more harmonious approach to childcare, including sleep.
The conversation concluded with a shared understanding that while the journey of parenting, and particularly navigating infant sleep, can be challenging, a focus on respect, observation, and connection offers a path towards more peaceful and fulfilling experiences for both children and their caregivers. The emphasis remains on understanding the child as an individual with unique needs, rather than fitting them into a pre-ordained mold.
