July 06, 2025 – Renowned RIE (Resources for Infant Educarers) associate Hari Grebler, a longtime proponent of respectful infant care, joined Janet Lansbury on her podcast "Unruffled" to discuss a nuanced and often misunderstood aspect of early childhood development: infant sleep. Grebler, who has over 35 years of experience and studied under the tutelage of Magda Gerber, emphasized a foundational approach rooted in observation, respect, and understanding the infant as a whole, capable individual. Her insights challenge conventional "sleep training" methods, advocating instead for attunement to a baby’s natural cues and rhythms.
The conversation, a follow-up to a popular previous episode titled "Every Child, Even a Tiny Baby, Deserves Time On Their Own," delved into practical strategies for fostering healthy sleep habits from infancy through toddlerhood. Grebler, also a Pikler pedagogue and Waldorf-trained early childhood teacher, shared her personal experiences and the core tenets of her practice, highlighting how these principles can build a lifelong foundation for both children and parents.
The Misconceptions of Infant Sleep
A significant portion of the discussion focused on the pervasive anxieties surrounding infant sleep, often amplified by societal expectations and commercial pressures. Lansbury noted how parents are frequently inundated with advice before their child even arrives, recommending specific equipment and techniques, which can detract from trusting their own instincts and understanding their baby.
"Before you even have your baby, sleep sounds scary," Grebler observed. "I mean, people scare you, I think. ‘You’ll never sleep again.’ You need blackout curtains. You need a sound machine. You need the Snoo. And so with all that, you’re inundated, it gets so hard to come just to, ‘What would I do and what would my baby like?’ It just removes us away from knowing our child before we even have a child."
This overemphasis on external solutions, Grebler and Lansbury suggested, can create a disconnect from the infant’s natural ability to regulate sleep. The prevailing narrative often frames sleep as a problem to be solved through rigid training, rather than a biological process that can be supported through mindful caregiving.
The Power of Observation: Reading the Baby’s Cues
At the heart of Grebler’s approach is the practice of keen observation. She advocates for parents to recognize and respond to their baby’s subtle cues of tiredness long before overt signs like eye-rubbing or yawning become apparent. These early indicators can include a slight daze in their gaze, a slowing of movements, or even a subtle increase in fussiness.
"My very favorite and best tip ever in the world is from the very, very beginning when you see your baby tired, even the littlest baby, to say, ‘Oh you seem so tired. I just saw you rub your eyes. Come, let’s go get ready for bed.’" Grebler stated. This simple act, she explained, serves multiple purposes: it acknowledges the baby’s state, connects it to a comforting action, and gently guides them towards rest.
The conversation touched upon the challenge of identifying these early signs, especially for new parents who are still learning their baby’s unique language. Lansbury admitted her own struggles with this, highlighting how sometimes the window for a peaceful transition to sleep can be very short. Grebler acknowledged that while subtle cues can be more challenging to detect, consistent observation, even for short periods, can reveal patterns. She suggests observing a baby about an hour after they wake up, noting when their play begins to falter or when they start to gaze passively.
Establishing a Rhythm, Not a Strict Routine
A key distinction made by Grebler and Lansbury is between a "rhythm" and a "routine" dictated by the clock. While a strict routine can feel prescriptive and often fail to account for a baby’s fluctuating needs, a rhythm emerges organically from observing the baby’s natural cycles of wakefulness, play, and sleep.
Grebler recounted an experience with her own son at around five months old, when she felt pressure to adhere to a more structured nap schedule. After observing a friend’s seemingly effortless routine, she initially considered following a sleep book. However, she ultimately chose to trust her RIE training and focus on understanding her son’s individual rhythm.
"From that day forward, I just watched really carefully," Grebler explained. "We had a rhythm of getting up in the morning, being fed, very much connecting together, diapering, changing, and then he would go to play. And this started from a very early age. So it was around five months where I knew I had an hour. After being very close and very intimate with him, he would go to play, and I had about an hour to get a coffee or eat some breakfast or something. But at the hour, I had a little chart, I know that’s kind of nerdy, and I just watched and observed and I saw when things weren’t going so well for him, that was sort of his sign. And then maybe an eye rub or a yawn, I’d see a yawn. For a week, every day I ticked off and it was like 9:00 every day, there was a complete rhythm there."
This process of observation and charting helped her identify a consistent window for her son’s naps, allowing her to gently prepare him for sleep when he was naturally ready. This approach, she emphasized, leads to a more harmonious experience for both parent and child, ultimately providing the child with a sense of security and predictability.
Addressing Sleep Resistance and Overstimulation
The discussion also touched upon instances where babies exhibit what might appear as resistance to sleep, often manifesting as increased fussiness, irritability, or even hitting. Grebler firmly connects these behaviors to underlying tiredness and dysregulation.
"When they’re tired, they’re just not themselves. And they can’t help it. It’s not fair to try to discipline or do this or that with a kid that is tired," Grebler stated. She recounted a recent consultation where a parent described their child’s frequent hitting. Grebler’s first question, as is her standard practice, was about the child’s sleep. The subsequent investigation revealed sleep issues as the root cause of the behavioral challenges.
Both Grebler and Lansbury stressed the importance of understanding that children, especially young ones, experience events with their entire being. Unlike adults who may compartmentalize experiences, children are fully immersed, making them more susceptible to overstimulation and exhaustion from seemingly minor events. Lansbury shared an anecdote about a lavish birthday party followed by children who were then "terrible" at a subsequent outing. The explanation, she offered, was simple exhaustion.
"They’re exhausted from what you did the day before," Lansbury explained. "And this is the really unfair thing about children is that they get topped out way before we would. And so we can’t base anything on how we’re feeling. We really have to be observant of them and know them and also just be ready and be prepared that they’re going to be tired when we least expect it, maybe."
The Nuances of "Sleep Training"
The term "sleep training" itself emerged as a point of contention and confusion. Both Grebler and Lansbury expressed reservations about the inherent meaning of the word "training," which suggests a regimented, externally imposed approach. They argued that such methods often overlook the relational aspect of sleep and can create an environment of pressure rather than comfort.
"Sleep training to me is a set of rules, like you say, and it’s putting the baby in and letting the baby be," Grebler elaborated. "And they talk about all kinds of things. Leaving the baby to cry, and I feel like there’s a difference between a five-minute cry in your arms or even longer in your arms. I feel like that’s different than a baby being by themselves."
Lansbury echoed this sentiment, highlighting that while she understands the desire for a peaceful end to the day, the focus should remain on connection and support. She suggested that even a brief period of parental absence after acknowledging the baby’s struggle can be acceptable if it’s not contrived or driven by a rigid timetable.
The broader implication of this approach is the fostering of a secure attachment. Grebler emphasized that a baby’s ability to sleep soundly is intrinsically linked to their feeling of being seen, understood, and securely connected to their caregiver. This connection extends beyond the bedtime routine and encompasses the entire day, including opportunities for free play, unhurried caregiving, and meaningful interaction.
Beyond the Crib: Integrating Sleep into a Holistic Approach
The conversation broadened to encompass the interconnectedness of sleep with other aspects of a child’s development, including play, movement, and even outdoor time. Grebler championed the idea of creating environments that naturally support healthy sleep, such as allowing babies to sleep outdoors when feasible, or incorporating natural sounds into the sleep space.
"You can’t separate sleep from play from caregiving," Grebler stated. She also highlighted the importance of allowing babies to move their bodies freely, both during wake times and in their sleep, as this contributes to their overall physical and emotional well-being, which in turn supports restful sleep.
Grebler also introduced her new offering, "Hari’s House," a virtual workshop designed to showcase the practical application of Pikler and RIE principles within a home environment. This initiative aims to provide parents with a tangible understanding of how a day can unfold, integrating caregiving, free play, meals, and sleep in a manner that prioritizes the child’s developmental needs and fosters a sense of security and autonomy.
Ultimately, the discussion with Hari Grebler offered a refreshing perspective on infant sleep, moving away from prescriptive methods and towards a philosophy of mindful parenting. By emphasizing observation, respect, and a deep understanding of the infant’s innate capabilities, parents can foster healthy sleep habits that not only benefit their children but also strengthen the parent-child bond for a lifetime. The core message is clear: sleep is not a battle to be won through training, but a natural process to be supported through attuned and loving care.